The Importance of Stopping the Eyes (Lucid and Pellucid Dreaming)

By Daniel Kelley

Imagine for a moment that you're walking through the woods on a summer evening. As you wander down the path leading deeper into the woods, your eyes dart hungrily from one natural wonder to the next. Before you know it, you're deep in the wilderness. The sun is setting, and the trees have now become towering silhouettes against the darkening summer sky. You suddenly realize you've long since strayed from the path leading home, and you begin to panic. What's the first thing you?

You look around, right?

The very same activity of the eyes that you're using to find your way out of the woods is the very same thing that got you lost to begin with!

So you stop for a moment, calm yourself down, and allow your intuition to function. Like trying to recall a dream only pushes it further away, trying to spot something which looks familiar in the woods will only disorient you even more.

So you close your eyes and allow you subconscious to guide you home.

In much the same way as getting lost in the woods, we get lost in our daily thought-loops, emotional reactions, and nightly dreams.

As above, so below...

If you're unconscious during the day, running on autopilot, you'll do the same while you sleep.

One of the most direct methods for consciously stepping behind the Veil involves stopping the movement if the eyes. It's not unlike realizing that swimming upstream against a powerful current is futile. It makes more sense to let go a drift with the current until you spot an opportunity to reach a rock, a branch, or swim to shore. The branch or rock is a metaphor for spotting or creating a dream object and latching onto it as you drift deeper and deeper into the forest of your subconscious mind.

Think about it:

Why do you think so many methods of meditation involve one-pointedness of attention?


So how to stop the eyes? First, you can't stop them directly. The nature of the eyes is movement. They follow objects, whether thoughts, dreams, or objects in waking life. So the trick to stopping them is to stop following the objects. This is harder than it sounds. To be successful, you must be VERY attentive but without straining. You must close off all external sensory input and be relaxedly but immensely aware of every single movement of your mind and emotions.

1. Sensory Withdrawal.

2. Calm but intense focus on all movement as it arises.

Those are the two keys to behind the Veil access!

If you're trying this at night, at bedtime, then you'll probably experience Lucid hypnagogia and brief Lucid Dreams, but then you'll enter NREM (non or light phase dreaming) sleep either consciously or unconsciously. This is because the sleep cycle moves through non-dreaming sleep first, for about 90 minutes, before it enters REM (dreaming).

Some Oneironauts can enter REM immediately, but it's rare. Most people must make a colossal effort to maintain Pellucidity in the NREM phase before they can truly reach Lucidity in the REM phase. For this reason, it's wise to train Lucid Dreaming in the early morning hours and Pellucidy in the the pre-sleep hours.

Throughout the day, the practice of mindfulness is indispensable. Try throughout the day to spontaneously STOP all internal and external movement. Whenever you find an opportunity to do so, do so.

Soon you'll be on your way to becoming a Veiler, capable of maintaining consciousness throughout the three broad states of Waking, Dreaming, and Dreamless Sleep.


My Crazy Adventures Behind The Veil Last Night.

By Daniel Kelley


    From the moment I closed my eyes last night I became Lucid. I found myself standing in front of a mirror at my late grandparents house. I closed my eyes  (in the dream) and began dreaming within the dream. I saw hypnagogia behind my eyes (in the dream) of a clear blue sky. There were avian creatures of some Astral variety, and they were flying hypnotically to and fro.

    I felt a strong need to urinate and did so within the dream. But then I feared that I may have actually wet the bed! So I woke up and happily noted that I didn't actually go #1. Just then, as I was about to reenter the Lucid Dream, I felt something or someone sit down at the foot of my bed. I actually felt the bed sink in as though someone had sat down.

    "Just the beginning symptom of sleep paralysis", I said to myself.

    No sooner had I thought this that I heard a man's voice exclaim, "oh shit!", and I felt whatever was sitting at the foot of my bed suddenly stand up! Strangely, I didn't open my eyes to see if anything was actually there. Instead, I fell back asleep and reentered my Lucid Dream. I was now at what looked like a highschool, and I was being followed by a brunette girl on a bicycle. She was maybe 17 or 18 years old and introduced herself as "Michelle Emily. But people call me Emily". She kept insisting that she was a Pagan and wanted me to teach her Astral Projection. I declined and said I hadn't enough time.

    But this is where things got strange.

    I agreed to show her how to Lucid Dream. I did this by actually waking up in a semi-trance, staring behind my eyes, reentering the Lucid Dream and touching the trunk of a nearby tree.  I said, "You see? And this dream tree feels more real than a real tree." She was astonished and angrily insisted I show her more. I declined and switched dream scenes by diving into a nearby lake.

    She followed me into the water and the next dream on her bicycle!

    The next thing I knew I was on an old jobsite and was wearing yellow contact lenses. Michelle Emily was there and refused to leave until my wife showed up and convinced her to go.

    I then ended up back at my grandparent's house and went to sleep there. My wife was in bed with me in the dream and I even woke up for real for a moment and my actual bedroom looked like my old bedroom at my grandparent's house. I reentered the dream and started making love to my wife (blushes). As I approached climax, I worried I might actually do so in reality so I woke up.

    That's that!

    This was an unusual night for me, because the dream and waking worlds truly merged throughout the night. Although I enjoy some aspect of Conscious Sleep every night, this was highly charged stuff.


An Interview with Author Julia Sellers

By Daniel Kelley

Julia Sellers, author of the thought-provoking book “I Have Seen It Tomorrow”, caught our attention here at The Veiler's Haven when TVH founder, author and teacher Daniel Kelley, posted a series of Julia's talks in the January and February editions of the Veiler's Newsletter. Writing under an alias (Iris Krst), Julia offers the strange and often soul-stretching experiences of her husband John (alias), a controversial but gifted individual with fascinating capabilities. Could John's abilities be real? If so, are they unique to only a gifted few? Or can these skills represent novel emergents in our evolution as a species? More importantly, can they be taught? TVH’s own, Daniel Kelley, has managed to track Julia down to ask her these questions and more. Julia graciously agreed. Enjoy!

(Below is an excerpt from Julia's latest book, “I Have Seen It Tomorrow”. I've elected to preface my interview with Mrs. Sellers with her husband's own words and Julia's commentary. I feel it serves as a great point of departure for the following Q&A---Daniel)

John on his Out of Body Experiences

(Excerpt Courtesy of Julia Sellers)

“I have had OBEs since I can remember. I remember leaving my body as a toddler. My OBEs occur every day, sometimes more often, sometimes less, depending on the weather, the season, or my emotional state. I have had OBEs and other paranormal experiences since I can remember. I remember being in my mother's uterus. I remember how it feels, the exact sounds, colors, and surroundings. I remember many of my so called past lives (including one in Egypt).

When I go out of body and when I don't allow myself to fly away, so to speak, I see my body below me. I am hovering above. There is no form attached to the higher Self-hovering above though. Actually, it feels like being in the body, but the surroundings look a little different and your senses are heightened to a considerable degree. You can hear things taking place behind walls, you can go through walls and doors, you can see in all directions at once (the so-called 360-degree vision). You hear things happening at far distances. You pick up emotions, thoughts, ideas, and feelings of other people; you communicate telepathically. When out of body, a part of your energy quantum (higher Self, Soul, whatever you wish to call it) gets extended beyond your physical body and into the greater space/time.

When I feel like traveling I will just leave my body and wander around. I can travel anywhere I want, different places, countries, dimensions, galaxies. Basically, any place I want to explore I will just leave my body and get there instantaneously by just thinking about it. I have been exploring Mars among other places. There is running water there, which I have discovered a number of years ago, far ahead of NASA (they have only published the news, I believe, two years ago). Also, there are certain types of living creatures (such as bugs and lizards) on Mars. I can easily spy on everyone and everything if certain conditions are met. If you ask me what any president of any country was doing I might tell you. Except the future is never stable and might change depending on a lot of circumstances.  I see different beings, creatures, elementals, ETs, and NHIs all the time, whether it is in real physical bodies or just apparitions filled with light, light orbs, or only colors and shapes, or sounds.

I communicate with colors as well. I see the far distant past when the Earth was being created, I see dinosaurs, volcanoes erupting, etc. With respect to feelings experienced when out of body, it feels like I am physically present wherever I end up out of body. I am part of the place I go to when out of body. It feels real, it feels like I am there physically, except my body is not there. When out of body, I function multi-dimensionally and I am not just an onlooker but rather a participant as well. So I am not only an observer, like if you are watching a movie. I am a part of the movie myself if you know what I mean. When you leave your body, you leave the third dimension and you continue existing in a quantum (field) of energy, which is not dense like in the case of physical matter, but feels lighter and exists independently to physical matter. This non-physical quantum of energy is able to pass through walls, doors, or dense matter. It is much less dense energy than physical matter; it is oscillations changing back to vibrations somehow (EM waves changing to scalar longitudinal compress/pressure waves). You can call it cold plasma or direct vibrational cognition, which is made up of the so-called standing waves in scalar mode. Everything is feeling based at its core. Feeling is sound/vibration based. Vibration is feeling based, oscillation is light based.

At the beginning, vibration (inaudible sound) existed, and out of it, light was born. Light is oscillation. So sound and light are always interchangeable. But make no mistake about it; it is feeling which is important. Sound is feeling, and feeling is vibration, and it is vibration that matters. It is feeling that matters and gives direction and runs everything else, so to speak, light only comes later on. Light is an EM wave – so are thoughts and emotions. Emotions are not feelings; they are EM waves while feelings are mechanical sound waves. So basically if you want to get to the heart of the matter you have to go through feelings (through sound, mostly infrasound, and ultrasound). Emotions and thoughts are light (EM). If you want to heal, you have to do it through feelings, you have to reverse time, so to speak, (it is called the phase conjugate mirror principle).

If you are able to get back in time all the way to the core vibration, you will get yourself into the realm of pure vibrational cognition. In this realm you can heal, you can access any records and information you want, it is the realm of creation, materialization, and dematerialization. Sometimes, when I am out of body, I go through things which haven't happened yet, because they will only happen physically in say 10 or 15 minutes. So basically I will live through the future being out of my body while the real future in physicality (in the third dimension) will follow afterward. Sometimes I am out of body half a day or even longer, so it varies, it could be minutes, hours, or many hours, as time as such does not exist and when out of body you don't sense any time whatsoever. Sometimes I will leave my body at say 1 pm and only come back in eight hours, or so. But understand that time flows differently when out of body so the eight hours out of body seem much shorter than in body. Sometimes I am approached by different vibrational groups of beings or soul beings. I am asked (by non-physical beings) to participate on different jobs pertaining to energy grids within the Earth and other tasks. With respect to Earth, I was shown that the solar flares that hit Earth carry something of importance in them. It is important for the Earth. The flares carry a big significance. The Earth poles started to reverse a long time ago so we are in the situation right now where the poles are being reversed. In the future, the Earth will be sucked into a black hole. Furthermore, the Earth will be destroyed due to the endeavors of other dimensional intelligent beings who want to feed off her. Currently, there is a fight over Earth. Different groups (alien groups) are fighting over her. There are groups that want to save Earth, but there also are groups that want to destroy Earth. The alien groups willing to save the Earth are currently working with certain individuals living on Earth. The Sun has been dying for a long time now.

It was shown to me that the Universe is self-regenerating in cycles (it is a closed self-generating cycle). There is a movement like a perpetual motion which is self-conscious and never ending. It can self-regulate, self-regenerate and self-sustain. It is being repeated in cycles and the two main forces behind it are contraction and expansion. Each human being is a small perpetual motion machine run on a co-vibrational resonant energy called "feeling" the highest frequency of which is love. I was shown when out of body (via automatic understanding or direct cognition) that a person is not dead until they are reborn. Just because their body has died here on Earth does not mean they are dead. Often they are waiting for their next journey back to Earth. So it is either in a new body or on a higher level for some people. But most people go to a new body after they die. A few people can suffer pain from past lives after they die. Some people will suffer from illness or trauma even after their body has died on Earth. It does not matter at all. Until they are reborn they might still feel pain. I know this for certain because I have witnessed it many times. With respect to what you call human intelligence and where it comes from and how you acquire it, it is my understanding that human intelligence comes from adding electricity, an electrical component to a physical body (which is magnetic). Certain animals are magnetic, such as flies, they have no intelligence (do everything automatically). Others are magnetic as well as electric. Magnetic creatures do everything automatically, with no intelligence attached to them. When you are out of body, you know it for sure. It is hard to describe unless you experience it yourself. Firstly, you know you are out of body, you can tell you are not dreaming or lucid dreaming. Your surroundings look different, smell different, feel different, and sound different, so to speak.

There is a difference between being out of body and remotely viewing something or being astral projected. When you are out of body, you feel the three-dimensional environment, so to speak, except it is more than 3D (it is multidimensional) as you are able to see with 360-degree vision, you can hear many sounds coming from different sources at once, you hear it all the same time. You can hear what is going on out on the street and in any apartment inside a building at the same time; you can hear it simultaneously, so to speak. It is like you are extended in space, you crossed the border of your body, your quantum of energy or consciousness is poured into the space around you. When out of body (and not traveling far away) I experience and live through everything that will happen in the near future. For instance, let's say my wife and I are in town, and we haven't decided to have lunch yet but soon we will. I know about it prior to it happening, but my wife does not. When out of body, I have the lunch out of body (15 minutes prior to having the actual lunch in my physical body). It means I feel the taste of the food and experience it with all my senses out of body prior to physically eating it. So basically you actually live through the whole future event prior to it happening.

The past as such is not fixed either. It can be changed, as it does not exist separately. It is a part of the present (so is the future) so both can be changed with your intense feeling based intention directed at whatever you wish to change in the present. However, sometimes when the future passes over a certain color horizon (color being EM light spectrum), meaning certain EM wavelengths, the future becomes fixed and there is no way you can change it by directing your own vibrations (feeling based) at the object or matter which you wish to change. If the situation, the thoughts, and feelings of a person involved in the situation, are vibrating above the orange color (on the spectrum of the visible light-EM oscillations) it is not possible to change the situation and/or your future, so to speak. When out of body you don't need eyes, because you can see by touch, smell, and taste. You can feel the shape of objects at distance (so basically if something is round or square you feel the shape at distance while out of body, at the same time you can taste whatever you are looking at, you can hear it too, because every object has its own sound whether it is a hum or any sound (including infra-vibrations and ultra-vibrations). Basically, every object has its own internal vibration or a signature. At the same time, you can get a feeling of how dense the object you are looking at is, whether it is soft or hard. You don't have to touch it, the touch is there already, you can touch at distance, so to speak. So no matter how far away you are from the object when out of body you touch it at distance, smell it at distance, hear it at distance, and feel its shape at distance. Sometimes, I have problems with my eyes when I am here on Earth. I can‘t read through my eyes. Only through touch and feel and other thoughts. I am only able to through the shape of air and thoughts. Most of the time I am out of body and it is not a problem. When I come back to Earth, I walk into walls sometimes. I am not sure what to do. My Earth eyes are a big problem. Furthermore, when out of body and returning back to body you go backward in time, so while out of body you are in the future, so to speak, when returning back to body you are returning back to the present. Certain parts in past can be rewind and changed. Some other parts can't be.

Sometimes when out of body, my orientation in three-dimensional space, in my physical body, is through the senses only (my eyes are not used). I get oriented through touching at distance, my aura is extended in space and I don't have to see the object, I just feel it with my extended aura (or energy quantum, whatever you choose to call it). It is like an animal who does not see at night, I don't have to see with my physical eyes because I can see with my extended aura in space (there are no physical eyes involved though, it is the energy that is part of my body yet extended in space at the same time that does the touching, feeling, seeing, hearing and smelling for me.)

Sometimes I have a hard time coming back to my body. Sometimes I can return to my body whenever I want to, sometimes if I am traveling far away out of body, it is harder to get back as it is being directed automatically, there appears to be some kind of self-regulated process in motion when I try to return back to body. If you go astral (lower dimensions, 4D for example), it is easy to go back, the higher you go, however (the deeper you go), the more complicated it gets. Sometimes, when on a mission, I am directed by beings of, I would call it light and color, for the lack of better words. The higher you are the less dense the matter gets, going all the way to pure light and color and sound (in the form of waves). Remote viewing, on the other hand, feels totally different than an OBE. When out of body you experience everything as if it was real. For instance, if you are out of body watching someone being killed, if you are close enough to the person you can feel on your body, say, the temperature of the blood pouring out of the dying person's body. Also, after the person dies, you see his signature leaving the body; it is the part of energy quantum that does not die, so to speak, it just goes out of body (after it dies) in a signature-like form. Some people might call it a soul or a spirit. Remote viewing doesn't involve any real experiences like what you get when out of body. Remote viewing is like you are watching a movie so you are not present at the scene; you watch it on the screen in your head as the thoughts on whatever or whoever the RV target is starting to pop up in your brain”.

Commentary by Iris Krst

Sometimes, when John visits a certain place (or just passes by or goes through a certain place), he goes back in time and perceives whatever was taking place at the location in the past. For instance if visiting a castle (during a sightseeing tour), while walking through the castle with a tour guide he is able to see both via RV and out of body what took place in a particular room in the castle, say a couple hundred years ago, when the castle was inhabited by its original inhabitants. He is able to describe what the people looked like, what they wore, what they were doing at the moment.

DK: First of all, Julia, let me thank you for taking the time to sit down with me and discuss your work.

JS: It is my pleasure Dan.

DK:  What made you decide to start writing about the hidden capacities of human consciousness?

JS: Well, it all started when I had my first OBE back in 1995. It came naturally, spontaneously. I had no idea about the phenomenon back then. The occurrences of OBE in my case alternated with what I call vibrational visions and lucid dreams. I believe I established contact with non-human intelligence guiding me in my dreams. Then I underwent a major STE (spiritually transformative experience) which completely turned my life around. Moreover, at that time I lived with Michael, who now happens to be my husband, and who spends significant amounts of time every day out of body while fully awake. I started to observe his OBEs and created a diary with many entries of his interdimensional travel. After 20 years I have decided to put together all I have learned about OBEs in the form of the book.

DK: May I ask how you knew that you were being guided in your dreams by praeterhuman intelligences?

JS: I was communicated with via my dream (lucid dream state/waking sleep vision), whatever you want to call it.  During this encounter I was visited by a man dressed in a black cloak. He also had a hood. Actually, he looked like a monk and there  was a deep scar on both his cheeks. He explained that he was there to guide me on my future journey, which I understood had something to do with certain significant changes happening to me in the future. He told me that certain changes were made to my digestive system. It was something about becoming a “breatharian”, at least that is what I have gathered. Shortly after the encounter I really began to eat very little and my body underwent strange changes in digestion.  I was able to recognize the face of the man in a book I was reading a couple of years later. The book shared stories about encounters with extraterrestrials.

DK: You mentioned that your husband can recall his own physical birth? What proof does he have of this besides his own subjective experience? 

JS: Well, I believe no one can give substantial proof when it comes to things like that. The problem, I believe, is different though. Rejection of subjective experience is quite strong in mainstream science.That is why I believe a new approach should be introduced into scientific work/research on these topics based on direct know-how and first-hand observation by the experiencers themselves. My book tries to do just that: It summarizes the results of subjective experiences of out of body states as experienced by those with the abilities. So what I am saying is that examining the insights of subjective experience will greatly contribute to the holistic approach to ASC (altered states of consciousness).

DK: You're definitely doing a great job as scribe of OBE and related topics. I especially enjoy the fact that you offer the descriptions of these events in the experiencer’s own words. One question that I'd like to ask you pertains to peer-review. Have you ever compared, say, the firsthand accounts of one person's OBE to those of other experiencers? The goal being to spot points of agreement or discontinuity? For example: Michael claims to be able to see the future and the past. Have you ever asked other people with this ability a question about a specific event in time and then compared it with your husband's account? That would be facinating!

JS: This really is a great question, Dan. I did not personally asked questions to other experiencers on past or future events to draw a comparison with Michael’s findings. However, Michael’s OBEs were described in chapter XX of the book titled, “The New Human: Awakening to our Cosmic Heritage”, authored by Australian researcher, Mary Rodwell, who is a professional counselor and hypnotherapist who has lectured in the USA, Canada, Hawaii, the UK, and New Zealand. She found many similarities of Michael’s OBEs visions with precognition and or retrocognition of other individuals described in the book. Rodwell opined the following on the similarities: “It was compelling that some of Michael's OBEs were identical, and corroborated information in some of the earlier chapters in this book.”

The other thing I can think of is the issue of Mars. Basically, in one of his visions of Mars, Michael said that, a long time ago, quite large lakes used to exist on Mars and that “Whole seas and oceans used to exist on Mars.” (Rodwell, 2016, p.352). He was quoted in Mary Rodwell’s book. Now the funny thing is that a similar description to Michael’s was given by Ken Farley in his July 18, 2017 testimony during a hearing of the U.S. House of Representatives' Committee on Science, Space, and Technology's Space Subcommittee. During the testimony Farley stated that Mars had lakes and rivers, and perhaps even a huge ocean in the Northern part.

DK: In your latest book you target OBE, Precognition, Trans-Dimensional travel, and other items which monological science deems impossible. How do you respond to this criticism?

JS: I don’t think that science necessary insists it is impossible. Out-of-body experiences in people with pathological cases such as epilepsy and other cases have been studied by many researchers to date. So they are widely recognized and distinguished from lucid dreaming and other similar states of altered consciousness, such as unconscious astral projection, hypnagogia, hypnopompia, false awakening, autoscopic hallucinations, heautoscopy or even cases of Doppelgänger effect, and bilocationality. Many scientists tried to describe the OBE from a scientific point of view. Blackmore did a great job studying OBE, and as early as in 1982 came up with a definition of OBE as an experience during which the experiencers seem to perceive the world from a location outside his physical body. Irwin would described OBE as real experience during which the consciousness occupies a position which seem to be remote from the physical body. Studies were conducted by Blanke or Brugger implying that OBEs feel very real while they are happening. My personal stance is that OBE should not be confused with lucid dreaming, hypnagogia, astral projection, REM microsleep, or OBE-like states of virtually reality.

DK: Great answer. Thank you! May I ask if you believe that OBE can be taught to everyone? Or is it a rare gift for only a select few?

JS: I am pretty sure it is something people can learn. It is my understanding in the future when people start vibrating on higher levels/frequency they will automatically experience OBEs of different varieties.

DK: If you had to condense your work into a mission statement, what would it be?

JS: My book presents the case for out-of-body experiences occurring in the non-pathological population. It talks about the OBE of an individual occurring spontaneously or at will, in the waking state, under full consciousness, in an active state. The OBEs described in my book are accompanied by a clear sense of separation from the body, while the experiencer’s physical body is in an active state such as walking, sitting, talking, etc. The problem is that the majority of current OBE studies examine elicited out-of-body experiences in the clinical population rather than the healthy population. Scientists study OBEs which are induced artificially rather than at will or occurring spontaneously in the waking/active state. I think there is a strong need to do research on healthy individuals who claim to be experiencing OBE spontaneously. This is what I try to do actually.

DK: You make a great point about research being conducted on only clinical subjects. I'd imagine it's pretty hard to get funding for testing on healthy subjects. Has Michael ever thought to volunteer himself as a test subject? Although OBE has been scientifically verified from the neurological point of view, we have yet to see satisfactory evidence of the capabilities possessed by your husband.

JS: Yes, Michael thinks about volunteering and I already talk to a certain group of scientists in the field, both in the US as well as Europe. We will see how it goes. Actually to my knowledge the only scientific study (I mean a long study over a couple of years) conducted on a healthy individual was the one of Alex Tanous who was able to experience full blown OBEs .    Although, Miss Z of Charles Tart or Ingo Swann (the former remote viewer spy) might qualified as well. There might be others which I am not aware of though.

DK: What is your stance on the use of entheogens/psychotropic plants and substances in the pursuit of the expansion of consciousness?

JS: As mentioned above, OBE can happen either spontaneously or can be induced artificially, so to speak. To my knowledge OBE can happen as part of near-death-experience or be induced by hypnosis, meditation, trance, different acoustic techniques, but also during contemplation and praying. In extreme cases OBEs can be induced by brain injuries, epilepsy, cardiac arrests, life threatening situations such as resuscitation or a sudden shock, activities such as extreme exercising, etc. Some OBEs were even reported as associated with cases of migraines and anesthesia. Now, based on the work with my clinets, it is my understanding that the use of etheogens might result in an out of body state of different levels, whether full blown out of body experience or the lower levels such as sleep paralysis or certain types of heautoscopy which might be considered OBE. We all are indvidual and certain people might find OBE induced by entheogens helpful in achieving a real STE, which can be helfpul in coping with different life crises. However, a couple of my clients reported bad experience after taking ayahuasca for the purpose of attaining altered state of conscioussness. So again, what might work for one does not work for someone else.

DK: Do you have any plans to write a companion piece to “I Have Seen It Tomorrow?”

JS: Actually, I would love to. But I am thinking about having more youtube videos done in the future. It is not that hard to talk as it is to write. Plus, in my case, English is not my mother tounge so the writing part might be quite challenging sometimes 😊

DK: Care to share one of your favorite OBE adventures?

JS: Well, when I get out of body I usually get scared and try to get back as soon as  possible, especially when an undentified force tries to pull my etheric body from the ceiling, where it is hovering, out of the window. Well, one of my OBEs which I called, “On a bicycle into a tunnel”, is a funny one and this is how I describe it in my book:

The following out of body experience took place February 19, 1996. After I got out of body, I clearly heard voices of different people as well as various other sounds. I was sure that what I was listening to were real sounds. They were not sounds which you are usually accustomed to hearing when dreaming. So my hearing was working just as well as when awake but with one small difference. I was able to hear everything more clearly than what I am used to when awake and in my physical body. However, I was not able to see any people I could attribute the sounds too. Then I realized that the sounds and voices belonged to people and subjects which were not in the house where I was located. From what distance they were coming or to whom they belonged, I was not able to identify.

Suddenly, I felt I was riding a bike which was rushing ahead at the speed of light. Then I saw a pink/purple light mixed with many snowflakes. The next thing I knew I found myself in a tunnel, flying at a very high speed. Suddenly the tunnel closed in front of me. I saw black darkness. Within it, colored circles began to appear. They were amethyst purple and green. The circles, some might call them orbs, looked alive. They were shimmering, growing, and shrinking before my eyes. They were dancing and I felt like this was their way of communicating with me. They formed special layered circles. What I mean is that there were newer and newer circles formed within the existing ones similar to an onion with many layers. The circles were dancing and moving and by doing so increasing their size and then shrinking back to a point. At one point it looked as if the circles actually grew from this little point in the middle. Watching the circles, I suddenly felt I was sinking. It felt like sinking under water or being immersed in water.

I knew I was out of body as I saw myself laying on the bed on the right. From the point of view of being out of body, my body appeared to lay on the right side. However, I can't tell for sure as for when you are out of body the right appears as if it is the left, and the left appears as though it is the right, as if in a mirror image. I was floating out of body in about the middle of the room. However, it is surprising that the things I saw in the room from out of my body were not turned upside down as I was accustomed to during the majority of my OBEs. I remember I tried to raise my hand. However, I could not see any hand. My hand was a part of my real physical body laying on my bed at that time. What I saw was only the contours of my hand. It looked cloudy, shadowy, and I knew it was not a hand made of physical matter, flesh, muscles, and tissues. It was a phantom, an etheric double hand. At the point of looking at the phantom of my hand, I clearly thought to myself: “Get back to your body.” And so I did, right after I intended to, with my mind.

DK: Amazing! Thank you so much for your time, Julia. We look forward to hearing more from you and Michael in the days and years to come 😊

JS: My pleasure! Thanks for having me.

DK: If readers would like to follow your career, where's the best place for them to go?

JS: They can find me at


Dream Incubation

(The Hangover Method)

By: Daniel A. Kelley

(In Book One of the SCT Series™, I showcased a Lucid Dream induction technique which I call The Hangover Method. Although Dream Incubation isn't the same thing as Lucid Dreaming, when both are used together your eight hours of shut-eye can get pretty interesting! In this article, I'm going to delve into the essence of this technique and offer some guidelines and suggestions so that you too can get the most out of this

time-tested method. Whether you're a Lucid Dreamer, or just someone who's interested in exploring the secret capacities of your mind, you'll find a good starting point in this article. Readers interested in the full 120-Days-Curriculum are encouraged to read the book Behind The Veil: The Complete Guide to Conscious Sleep.)


Dream Incubation is the art of planting a seed in the subconscious with the goal of finding a solution to a problem or simply to enjoy a dream of one's own creation. You might think of it as the preset button on your car stereo or TV set. The ability to dream about any desired theme, person, or scenario is one of the most coveted skills in the oneironaut community. At a few points in history, Dream Incubation was even a medical and religious practice! The Asclepius cult of ancient Greece is one famous example of how this skill was used by the priests of the medical profession. The ancient Hebrews employed it as a divination tool and so did the early Romans. Today, Dream Incubation is still being used by educators, athletes, artists, and sleep scientists. Ever hear of hypnosis? Yup, that's Dream Incubation too!

In Book Two of the SCT Series™, I discuss the use of archetypal imagery for Dream Incubation as part of my system of Tarot, called Animitariomancy. After two decades of experience and research, I began to observe a pattern in how the subconscious latches on to and employs specific themes, emotional responses, and scenarios for the purpose of solving problems and integrating their solutions into the neuronet of the human bodymind. I discovered that when one creatively approaches this internal mechanism with familiar symbols and patterns (Tarot, for example), then the subconscious responds by binding new information to those familiar symbols thereby consolidating new data into new memory. We're presently going to discuss some examples of how this works.


After many years of practice, I've learned that Dream Incubation relies on four factors. They are:

• Novelty

• Identification

• Recognition

• Intention

(Or NIRI for short. Pronounced "N-eye-ree".)

Really? You ask. That's all there is to it?

Like most novel skills, Dream Incubation may appear complicated but once you understand how it works it's really quite simple. In fact, you probably do it all the time without realizing it. No?

Do you remember as a child when your parent or guardian would warn you against watching scary movies because they will give you nightmares? Well, that's Dream Incubation! Or, if you're a "gamer", how often you dream of a new video game you played the day before or that new level you reached in a game you've been playing for some time? Yup, you guessed it: That's Dream Incubation too! The difference is that you're tapping into this hidden capacity of your mind unconsciously. Imagine what you could do if you gained some control over it!

Researcher Dierdre Barrett, in her well-known study on Dream Incubation:

'Seventy-six college students (47 women, 29 men; ages 19-24, modal age  =  21) were asked to incubate dreams addressing problems as a homework assignment in a class on dreams. They were instructed to select a problem of personal relevance with recognizable solution(s). It could be of a personal, general objective, or academic nature. They were then asked to write out the problem in a simple fashion and to follow the dream incubation instructions of Dement (1974). Immediately prior to the first night of dream incubation, they had attended a lecture summarizing the literature on problem solving in dreams.

Subjects followed this procedure nightly for one week or until the they had a dream which they felt solved the problem. They recorded all dreams they recalled during this week and noted which ones they thought: A) were on the topic of the problem, including addressing any aspect of the problem or any attempted solution of it and B) of these, ones they believed contained a satisfactory solution to the problem.'

This experiment resulted in approximately half of the students dreaming the solutions to their chosen problems!

Isn't that far out?

Notice that the college students were asked to incubate their dreams by choosing a problem of personal relevance with recognizable solutions. They were also subjected to new information about solving problems in dreams the night before the experiment. The students then went to sleep with the intention of dreaming the solutions to their problems.

Those are the four essentials of Dream Incubation! It's a simple as that. 😊

There are many ways of utilizing NIRI. In the following section, I'll introduce you to a two-in-one method of Dream Incubation which employs both The Hangover Method and an Animitariomantic method (Tarot). Animitariomancy employs the archetypal themes of the twenty-two cards of the Major Arcana of Tarot in a manner which weds divination to Lucid Dreaming. Please don't feel limited to these two approaches to Dream Incubation. As long as you understand the NIRI formula you can come up with methods of your own. Well-known author and Lucid Dreaming teacher, Clare Johnson PhD, creates colorful collages replete with symbolism representing the dreams she wishes to incubate. Another fellow I know creates musical playlists with songs featuring themes he wishes to see in his dreams. And one student of mine uses Subliminals to incubate his dreams (see my blog at for more details).

The point is that once you know how to employ the NIRI formula you can experiment with many different approaches to Dream Incubation. Let me share with you my favorite approach. 😎

The Hangover Method

Readers familiar with the core module of my Subliminal Cognition Training™ system will recognize this approach. The Hangover Method and The Hitchhiker Method are by far the most popular techniques of my system. I receive more positive feedback from students regarding these two methods than any other aspect of the 120-Days-Curriculum. In this section, I'm going to teach you how to apply The Hangover Method to the art of Dream Incubation. Readers interested in The Hitchhiker Method are encouraged to consult Book One of the SCT Series™. For a full discussion of Animitariomancy, please consult Book Two of the SCT Series™, Tarot For Lucid Dreamers: The Animitariomancy Method.

Let's begin! 😉

The Hangover Method works by utilizing a peculiar function of the brain. Generally speaking,

whenever a desire, lesson, urge, or story is left unsatisfied or incomplete, the brain compensates by creating a dream so that the resolution isn't left hanging. A common example is the fulfilment of repressed or unsatisfied sexual desire in the form of a "wet dream". Indeed, sexual dreams are by far the fastest route to experiencing Dream Incubation and I highly recommend it to new students. That said, not everyone is comfortable with the sexual approach so don't feel restricted to it. As long as you follow the instructions, you can choose anything as a theme for The Hangover Method provided the theme is one which utilizes the NIRI formula. For the following exercise the only things you'll require are an imagination, an open mind, and a TV set or good book. Experience suggests that a practice period of at least one week is required for successful Dream Incubation. Once you get the hang of it, you can incubate a different dream for every night of the week!

STEP ONE (Turning the Topsoil):

The first step involves an orientation process which I call turning the topsoil. Just as a gardener turns the topsoil in preparation for planting seeds, so too must you churn the soil of your subconscious mind in preparation for Dream Incubation. To begin, decide upon a theme you'd like to dream about. This can be anything you fancy provided it's something you identify with (emotional response). The stronger your identification with the chosen theme the greater are your chances of success.

Next, choose an image that represents the dream you wish to have. This can be a photo of a person, place, or thing. It's crucial that this image be a simple one, like a portrait or a symbol. For example, if you're incubating a sexual dream, select a photograph of the person you wish to dream of. If it's a nude photograph all the better! Or maybe you'd like to dream about a beautiful vacation spot or even another planet. Simply find a simple photograph of the location and set it aside. As I've mentioned, the twenty-two Major Arcana of Tarot are perfect for this purpose. If you've been working with one particular deck for a long time that's even better. If you don't own a Tarot deck, simply search for Tarot decks on the internet and select the card which most accurately represents your chosen theme for Dream Incubation and bookmark it or send it through a printer. The goal is to meditate upon this image until it's committed to memory. After some time your subconscious will recognize the card and it's corresponding emotion. It can then be used to trigger specific dreams. This is commonly referred to as a Totem. If you're already familiar with this image, that's even better. Remember, in order for your subconscious to use imagery, concepts, or sensory phenomena to create the dream you desire it must first recognize it and it's association with your chosen theme. That doesn't mean that you can't use unfamiliar images as your Totem, only that you must download the new image to your psyche, as it were, and bind it to the emotion of your chosen theme.

Now that you've chosen your totem, the next step is to put it to work. To do this you must target two specific times when your mind is especially receptive. These times are just before you fall asleep and just before you awaken the next morning. You can also meditate using your Totem as an object for contemplation (see Book Two for more details), but before and after sleep are the ideal times. What you want to do is this:

Pick up some earplugs and eyeshades. Or, if you're one of those lucky persons with access to a pitch black and silent home, then you can jettison the earplugs and eyeshades. This can also be practiced on a recliner or in bed with a memory foam wedge, but the goal is to lay down with your upper body on a roughly 45° incline. This sends the signal to your subconscious that you wish to relax but not fall immediately asleep. That said, close your eyes and stare gently into the blackness behind your closed eyes. If there are any colors or spots this means that your mind is too stimulated and you must calm it down before you can proceed. To do this, simply feel your body getting heavier and melting into the surface of your bedding or chair with each exhalation of breath. Really let go of all tension in your body, especially your head, neck, jaw, and face.  Don't fall asleep! You'll know when you're sufficiently relaxed because your field of vision will become less active and give way to a black and velvety darkness. Only then should you proceed to the next step.

Now conjure up the image of your Totem and the general emotion associated with the dream you wish to have. If, for example, you chose to have an erotic dream, conjure up the the image of your Totem and open yourself up to erotic feelings. Allow the Totem image to float before you in the darkness behind your closed eyes without straining to concentrate. Then simply allow yourself to fall asleep naturally in any posture you like. If you wake up in the night to urinate or get something to drink, go back to sleep with your Totem image in your mind's eye. You might also want to place the physical copy of your Totem on your fridge or somewhere else where you can gaze upon it regularly. At any rate, the moment you awaken the next morning, repeat this exercise before jumping out of bed. If you chose an erotic dream, it's important to not satisfy you sexual urge until you've successfully incubated your dream, otherwise you'll defuse the tension required for The Hangover Method.

STEP TWO (The Hangover):

The next step is Dream Incubation proper and involves the element of surprise combined with the power of delayed satisfaction. There are a few ways to accomplish this. The method which I'm going to share with you requires nothing more than either a good book or a good movie. Now that you've successfully planted the seed of your Totem image in the fertile soil of your subconscious mind, your next task is to water it and give it sunlight. The sunlight here comes in the form of an emotionally evocative movie, book, or both, and the water is your emotional reaction to it (Identify). It's crucial that this be something you've never watched or read before. The only requirement is that the plot must center on your chosen theme for Dream Incubation.

Once you've chosen the book or film be sure that you can enjoy it without any distractions or interruptions. Also, watch or read it shortly before falling asleep for the night. Here's the catch:


Remember that The Hangover Method works by using the NIRI formula and weds it to the brain's fulfilment mechanism. If the story you're reading or the movie you're watching ends with a perfect resolution to the tension of the plot then you're less likely to dream about it. Instead, only read or watch half of it and then retire for the evening. Before you do, though, perform the Totem exercise from step one.

If you don't have the dream you desire that night don't be dismayed. Simply repeat the same thing the following night and the night after that or until you succeed. That you do succeed is important because each success builds upon previous successes until one day you wake up (or go to sleep) and realize that you've acquired a new skill.

One last thing:

You must watch a different film, read a different book, or watch a different YouTube video, for each night until you're successful! Do NOT complete either of them. The resultant psychic tension will eventually result in successful Dream Incubation.

I promise!

So what are you going to do with your newfound skill? The sky is the limit, really, but if out of the innumerable possibilities you'll find at your disposal you can't decide where to begin, simply follow this ancient axiom:


The answer has always been there, behind the Veil, waiting for you. 


Bend To The Light: Conscious Sleep as a Training for Death.

By Daniel Kelley

    In my article entitled, Descent Into The Underworld, I discussed the similarities between Conscious Sleep and the timeless myth called The Hero's Descent. We find this theme in virtually every known culture of the world, from the caves of the Himalayas to the jungles of Africa to the plains of the Western Americas. Briefly, the Hero's Descent involves a dramatic encounter with the Hero's own fears, bringing them into sharp focus, with the probability of his own demise being the worst of the Hero's terrors.

    The most perennial example of The Hero's Descent belongs to the Shamanic traditions of the world, and this includes the famous Bardo Thodol (Tibetan Book of the Dead). The death and rebirth rituals of Shamanic cultures are practiced to this very day, and typically involve a “vision-quest” or “soul-retrieval” experience. These can be quite profound---traumatic even---, and are produced in a number of different ways. I'd like to talk a little about what soul-retrieval is and why it's performed. Readers interested in a thorough discussion on how to begin this training are encouraged to visit my website (link provided below).

    If you think of soul-retrieval as a magical-minded expression of the Individuation Process then you're on the right track. Created by psychologist, Carl Gustav Jung, the Individuation Process involves uniting the Conscious and Unconscious regions of a person's psyche. It's assumed that a large percentage of what's called “mental illness” can be healed by becoming, as it were, a whole person. You see, most of us live in a small portion of our total selves (small “I”). Consequently, we become imprisoned within the walls of our own minds and the rest of what makes us individuals becomes split off from the total Self (big “I”). The result of this psychic divorce is neurosis, existential meaninglessness, anxiety, and a nagging sense that something’s missing.

    Soul-retrieval is a quest, the aim of which is to reclaim those alienated parts of the psyche…

    The end result of this is holistic integration of the little “I” with the big “I” is a more balanced, sane, healthy, courageous, insightful, and relaxed person. But the road is long and the obstacles great. Those exiled elements of the Self are coveted and guarded by fearsome dragons of the Pit, and to win the day the Fool must become a Knight. Only, the Fool doesn't become a Knight first and then slay the Dragons; rather, the Fool becomes Knighted in the very act of facing his fears as a Fool!

    That last part is very important to understand, because if you wait until you're brave enough to make The Descent, you'll never do it.

    In my aforementioned article, I highlighted the connection between The Hero's Descent and the plight of the Oneironaut (Lucid Dreamer). Sadly, many Lucid Dreamers never encounter the death/rebirth process in their nightly jaunts because their training plateaus at the “psychic video game” phase. Consequently, many Oneironauts only superficially engage the spiritual facets of Conscious Sleep. For this and other reasons, I've coined the term “Veiler”, to distinguish between those people who are aiming higher and those who are just having fun.

    I've also created a system, called Subliminal Cognition Training (SCT), the goal of which is the attainment of continuity of consciousness throughout the three broad states of Waking, Dreaming, and deep Dreamless Sleep. One of the primary elements of this system involves The Hero's Descent and an encounter with egoic annihilation.

    I know, fun right?

    But the simple truth is that we go through this mini-death every night, only we're not present when it happens. We're drooling on our pillows. That said, you'll logically ask, “Why would anyone want to experience self-annihilation?!” The answer to this question is a little complicated, but the skinny answer is that it frees you from your restricted identity to only one expression of your total consciousness, namely that of the Waking state, so that you're now free to explore the hidden treasures of consciousness and, frankly speaking, to hear what the rest of you has to say.

Perhaps a few examples will clarify the importance of this aspect of Conscious Sleep:

    Have you ever been addicted to anything? Well, I was! I smoked cigarettes for twelve years, beginning at the tender age of twelve and quitting at age twenty-four. It wasn't easy! I tried everything: the nicotine patch, the pills that make cigarettes taste bad, cigarettes that gradually decrease nicotine content until you've “weaned” off of them entirely.

Nothing worked…

Eventually, the only thing that did the trick was quitting, as they say, “cold-turkey”, and clawing my way through the withdrawals. One thing I discovered was that my craving completely vanished whenever I was asleep and Lucid Dreaming. This may sound like an anticlimax, but the effect it had upon me was profound. I noticed that, even though I was fully conscious in my dreams, I had absolutely no desire to smoke cigarettes!

What changed?

Well, the only conclusion I could draw was that I was either tapping into a part of my nervous-system that was beyond the reach of addiction, or I was accessing a different “body” entirely. Whichever it was, one thing was certain: I was experiencing a world and a life in which I was freed from addiction.

I also utilized this unique function of Conscious Sleep when I had a terrible toothache. I noticed that the pain completely vanished when I entered Pellucid and Lucid Dreaming. At one point, I was at a dentist appointment and met a soldier in the Marines. She was a woman of about thirty years and had just managed to undergo root canal surgery without anesthesia. I asked her how she accomplished such a feat and she said, “I put myself into an in-between state of sleep and awake. I know the pain is there, but it's somewhere on the fringe of my awareness.”

    Five years later, I accomplished the same thing when I had my wisdom teeth removed.

    So what does all this have to do with the proverbial descent into the Underworld of the psyche?

    I can think of no better answer to this question than this saying of a famous Zen master:

    “You suffer because 99.9% of your problems are about yourself, and there isn't one.”

    The above quote is not saying that you don't exist. Rather, it's saying that there's more to you than the self you so desperately cling to. And in order to truly encounter these deeper fathoms of your consciousness you must loosen that chronic grip you have on your soul. Subliminal Cognition Training, and other systems of Conscious Sleep, are designed to teach you how to do just that.

The fundamental skill to learn during this training is surrender of your need for control. Anyone who's ever ingested a powerful psychedelic will attest to this basic tenet, and Conscious Sleep is a psychedelic experience. Besides the actual transition from Awake to Asleep, there's a specific point during the sleep-cycle when you actually die as a conscious being. I call this threshold, The Veil, and it truly is an experience of annihilation on all levels of being and knowing. In fact, it feels as if the entire universe is being swallowed up in an eternal grave. But if you can persevere past this point you'll discover that, far from being the end of the world, you've just encountered the beginning of a new one.

And isn't that what life is all about?

About the Author

(Daniel Kelley is an author, poet, musician, and Integral Life Practitioner with over two decades of experience in the esoteric-arts. He is the creator of Subliminal Cognition Training™. Daniel was born in 1979 to Baptist parents in Waterloo Canada. His father was a Baptist preacher. After a profound and prolonged transpersonal crisis in early childhood, Daniel broke away from his strict Christian upbringing to study the wisdom traditions of the world. At age sixteen he suffered a breakdown that culminated at age twenty-one, at which time he experienced a transpersonal breakthrough. After joining various Hermetic societies and practicing their methods, Daniel eventually found his spiritual home in Chinese Taoist Alchemy, Integral Life Practice, and the various yogas of India and Tibet. He also practices and teaches Internal Chinese Martial Arts, Qigong, Taijiquan and Xingyiquan. Daniel currently lives with his wife and daughter in upstate New York.)



Crossing The Threshold

(How To Remain Conscious While Falling Asleep)

By Daniel A. Kelley

In the classical mythological tale called The Aeneid, the hero Aeneas descends into the underworld and encounters several demons, one of whom is the demon called Sleep. In the story of The Wizard of Oz, Dorothy and her companions are thwarted on their journey to Emerald City by the Wicked Witch of the West, her weapon of choice being a spell of sleep induced by a field of opium poppies. And in the book by Michael Ende, The Neverending Story, Atreyu and his horse are almost overcome in the Swamp of Sadness by a death-like sleep as their home--the dreamworld of Fantasia--is being swallowed up by a pernicious and mysterious force called The Nothing.

The technical term for this perennial descent into the underworld is Katabasis, the coming back from which is termed Anabasis. As you've probably guessed, these mythological themes are perfect metaphors for the act of Conscious Sleep and it's nemesis, unconsciousness. The act of falling asleep and waking up consciously is a death/rebirth process in which the oneironaut plays the hero/heroine. The process of becoming a Veiler is the enactment of our personal myth and, like all myths, we can expect to encounter forces and characters both familiar and strange. We'll encounter guides and trials, adventures and monsters, challenges and the magic to overcome them. And it all begins with our acceptance of the Hero's Call, followed by the famed descent into the underworld.

The underworld of sleep and dreams…

In this underworld of our subconscious and collective unconscious minds we'll encounter angels and demons alike. We'll encounter the hopes and fears, not only of our own psyche and the egregore of our particular culture, but of consciousness as such. It's important to understand that, just as Dorothy Gale with her Ruby slippers, Atreyu with his Auryn talisman, or Merlin with his magical staff, our totem (power-object) during this descent into the underworld of sleep is CONSCIOUSNESS! For a truly successful Katabasis/Anabasis we need to be able to withstand the intoxicating spell of what I call the Sleep Serpent. When it comes to getting a healthy night's sleep, the sleep serpent is your best friend, but in your quest to become a Veiler that snake is your arch-enemy!

Becoming Immune to the Venom of the Sleep Serpent

Anyone who's ever practiced sitting meditation after a long day’s work is all too familiar with the seductions of the sleep serpent. You start out strong, right? Your posture is perfect, your breathing is regulated, you're relaxed but focused; and then it happens:

You wake up an hour later drooling on your meditation cushion because you nodded off again!

Some hero you turned out to be, aye? 😏

Well, I'm here to tell you that you're not alone. This happens even to seasoned meditators, to say nothing of Lucid Dreamers. Lucky for you I've developed, after twenty-plus years of dedicated practice and research, a method by which you can gradually become immune to the venom of unconsciousness. I'm presently going to share this method with you, but first let's start by addressing a common concern I often encounter among students who practice this technique. I'll format it in the form of a question:

If I become proficient at bypassing unconscious sleep, won't I be inadvertently training myself to become an insomniac?

This is actually a very significant question, and I've seen it asked many times on Internet forums only to provoke laughter and scorn from many oneironauts. But the simple truth is that the answer is:

Yes, sometimes it happens that a period of insomnia results from this practice. I'd be lying if I told you otherwise. The reason for this is that your brain isn't accustomed to the request to remain conscious during the sleep cycle, especially when everything else in your bodymind is sending chemical signals to go to sleep. That said, I've highlighted several important and time-tested tips designed to sidestep this problem:

Practice While Sitting Up!

• Practice In the Morning and/or Afternoon!

• Gradually Practice on Increasing Degrees of Reclining Posture!

• Allow for Time to Develop the Proper Neuronet for Conscious Sleep!

I've personally used these methods for many years and my students also use them to great effect. Let's take these helpful tips in the order in which I've listed them:

Practice While Sitting up

This is a no-brainer. One of the biggest reasons why most meditation practices are practiced in a sitting position is that it promotes mental alertness. The human nervous system has been trained for millennia to remain alert while the body is erect, to relax while reclining, and to sleep while lying down. As always, we want to ride the wave of these evolutionary developments and use them to our advantage whenever we can. You can think of it as the Tao of Conscious Sleep.

Practice In the Morning and/or Afternoon

This works along the same lines as the above recommendation. In my own system of Conscious Sleep (SCT™), I always tell beginner-level students who desire to experience Lucid Dreaming that they should first establish a Circadian Rhythm, then purchase an alarm with adjustable volume settings, set their alarm for 4:00am, and then (without getting out of bed) begin a Lucid Dreaming technique. This approach yields such consistent results that it has become a staple of most systems of teaching Lucid Dreaming. The reason for it's remarkable success is that this method utilizes the natural rhythm of human biochemistry. If you practice only when you go to bed at night then you're actually swimming against the tide of nature, which includes your own biorhythms. At night, you're probably pretty tired from the day! Add to this the fact that the pineal gland in your brain is beginning to flood your body with the sleep hormone called melatonin, a process which starts as soon as the sun begins to descend over the horizon. With this mind one can see how difficult and counterproductive it can often be to practice Conscious Sleep at bedtime. Of course, this doesn't mean that one shouldn't practice at this time, but it shouldn't be the only time one practices, especially if you're expecting to see quick results.

Gradually Practice on Increasing Degrees of Reclining Posture!

This is the method I used to train myself to remain alert during my own frequent descent into the underworld, and is one of the unique contributions of SCT™ to the contemporary study of Conscious Sleep. Considering what we've discussed thus far it should be obvious how and why this tip works. As we've seen, the brain has been conditioned for millennia to be alert while sitting up, to relax while reclining, and to fall asleep while lying down. What we're trying to do is gradually retrain the bodymind to remain alert in all three of these basic postures (neuroplasticity). This is nothing new, and the Yoga traditions have known this for thousands of years (Asana).

Allow for Time to Develop the Proper Neuronet for Conscious Sleep!

Like any newly acquired skill, Conscious Sleep requires a specific anatomy in order to become a stable and consistent trait of your experience. Whether learning to walk as a toddler, learning to run as an Olympic track star, or learning to play the violin, we must develop the proper neuronet to house the desired talent. Some people have a little more natural talent than others, which is why we all learn at a different pace, but regardless who you are you're still going to have to pass through the learning-curve just like everyone else. The important thing is to make the firm decision to do it and stick with it to the end.

Wanna Try It Out?

The only thing left to do is put everything we've learned into practice! After all, if we don't answer the Hero's call to battle than we'll never have the adventure we long for. So how do we begin our descent into the underworld? How do we become immune to the sleep serpent’s venom? Well, first, we must go it alone. I mean, really, you can't even have a thought to keep you company.

In book one of the Subliminal Cognition Training series, I prefaced the 120-Days-Curriculum with the fundamental practice of Trance. Without first acquiring the skill of entering Trance, and sustaining it for at least thirty minutes, you don't stand a chance against the magic of the sleep serpent! Believe me, you'll lose every time. A famous mystic and poet once admonished, “Be thou athlete with the Eight Limbs of Yoga, for without it thou art not disciplined for any fight!”.

I couldn't have said it better myself!

The Trance State: The Entrance to the Underworld

In my workshops, online and in-person, I'm often met with confused looks when I describe the secret key to entering the Trance state. The confusion stems from the paradoxical nature of Trance. To illustrate this ambiguity of the Trance state I find that the Zen practice called Zazen makes for a perfect example. The traditional instructions for Zazen are pretty darn simple. You're told to sit with your spine erect but relaxed, with your head gently suspended as though a string were softly pulling your head upward toward the sky, with your eyes either closed or else halfway open and staring softly forward and downward, either at the floor or the tip of your nose. A little later on you're to include a relaxed but focused attention on the natural rhythm of your breathing, but in the beginning you're told to JUST SIT.

Sounds easy, right?

Okay! I dare you to try it right now. Put this article down and find somewhere comfortable to sit. Now just sit there. Don't do or think of anything else for the next thirty minutes. Don't worry, I'll wait.


Hey, you're back! So how did it go? If you're like me when I first tried this exercise twenty-two years ago then you couldn't even manage five minutes without getting lost in thought, internal dialogue, or physical restlessness. If this describes you don't dismay. Entering the state of Trance isn't an easy thing to do when you first try it. It can take months or years to master it. Personally, it took me roughly two years to become proficient at it and I still haven't exhausted my full capacity to deepen this most basic of psychic talents!

The practice of Zazen has been aptly likened to two professional dancers. When you're watching a performance of, say, the Waltz, demonstrated by two skilled dancers, it's hard to tell who leads and who follows. In much the same way, when you're entering Trance it's hard to say what you did to enter it and what you didn't do to enter it. On the one hand you've made the conscious decision to sit in Zazen and enter the Trance state. That looks like a form of doing, and yet all you're really “doing” is sitting there and allowing everything to be exactly as it is in that moment! To say “Yes” to the Now without feeling the need to add or subtract anything from the moment is the fastest route to disengaging your present state of consciousness and enter sleep.

This can be put another way…

In terms of bioelectrical brainwaves, if you're in BETA (awake/task-oriented) then anything you do while in that state will lock you into that state. In other words BETA, which is task and result oriented, is disempowered by the firm decision not to do anything. This psychic passivity quickly thrusts you into the ALPHA state (relaxed wakefulness). We're all familiar with this state and it has two modes, one productive and the other counterproductive to our quest. Whenever you're reading a book and suddenly realize that four pages have been flipped without you remembering anything you've read, you're in ALPHA. Conversely, you're also in ALPHA whenever you do remember what you've read. In other words, you're processing data without ruminating about it. In the first case you're on autopilot; in the second case you're relaxed but it's a curious relaxation. Because if it's curiosity it's very fertile, and as you've probably guessed it's this latter expression of ALPHA that we're aiming for in our practice of Trance. Just as you can passively but curiously watch your favorite sitcom on TV, you can sit and watch your breathing, emotions, and your thought-processes with the same detached but curious gaze. Follow this formula long enough and what happens is that you enter the THETA state of consciousness. This marks a pivotal turn-of-events, as the THETA state begins your true entry into the underworld of sleep!

Most people are shocked to find that Conscious Sleep is actually a synonym for most forms of meditation; but to be honest, it really isn't that far of a stretch. Almost everyone has access to the three broad states of WAKING, DREAMING, and DREAMLESS SLEEP. It logically follows that almost any other state of consciousness that you can conceive of is probably going to be a variation of one of those three fundamental states, alone or in combination. So there it is:

Meditation IS Conscious Sleep!

To successfully perform our descent into the dark underworld of sleep we're going to need a bright lantern. That lantern is our consciousness itself, and just as a lantern can't burn without fuel and without shelter from strong gusts of wind, neither can our awareness burn brightly and stably enough to illuminate the dark cave of DELTA sleep without adequate rest, diet, and adrenal strength. DELTA sleep is the dominant brainwave found in dreamless sleep, babies, and coma patients, so you can imagine how challenging it can be to maintain alertness here. In fact, the very sleep cycle itself can be likened to a vast ocean of DELTA, with tiny islets and streams of THETA and (more rarely) GAMMA waves here and there. DELTA sleep is largely the province of NREM sleep (non rapid eye movement), and accounts for roughly 2/3rds of a sleep cycle. If allowed to complete a full night's rest (eight to twelve hours), then REM sleep can transform from a small stream to a large river, which makes it more probable that Lucid Dreaming can occur. It should be pointed out that conscious DELTA sleep (called Pellucid sleep) is synonymous with deep meditation, and is precisely what we need to master if we wish to be successful in our Katabasis/Anabasis. Without sufficient training in Pellucid sleep and dreaming we don't stand a chance at falling asleep consciously. Of course, that doesn't mean that we can't still practice the “4:00am method” and enjoy Lucid Dreaming. We can! But our experience of it will be limited to the hypnopompic phase of sleep, when what we really want as Veiler's is to enjoy the full spectrum of Conscious Sleep, which includes the hypnagogic phase as well.

To begin practicing, find a dark and quiet place to comfortably sit without distractions for at least half an hour. Purchase earplugs and an eyeshade if necessary. Next, enter the Trance state by just sitting, as previously explained. If you have difficulty doing this (and you will!), try this little trick of mine:

Conjure up the conviction that everything you've ever wanted is yours and everything you could ever think of accomplishing has been achieved!

You should notice a brief but sudden feeling of contentment. This can be deepened! More importantly, notice the work that this contentment does for you. Normally we're split into two parts, with one half of our psyche being the watcher or doer and the other being the experience being watched, the idea being thought, or the activity being done. In other words, we're always attempting to see ourselves from the outside, as it were, rather than just being what we are in the moment, and what this contentment does is it relaxes this tension and allows us for the moment to just be. That's why the fastest route to never learning how to successfully meditate is to sit there with eyes closed and repeatedly wonder to yourself, “Am I doing this right?” Rather, just be there with whatsoever arises and say “Yes” to it; and then wait! The moment you start to feel yourself nodding off, gently focus on your breathing. Don't do anything with the breathing rhythm just yet! Simply watch it as you would your favorite TV show. This will serve as an anchor for your alertness. Lastly, resist the urge to lay down and go to sleep. Don't give in to the venom of the sleep serpent! Simply sit there and know that by doing so you're slowly becoming immune to that venom.

Readers interested in an exhaustive discussion of Conscious Sleep are encouraged to consult The Veiler's Haven website or my Subliminal Cognition Training book series. For now, we need to get into the habit of practicing Trance on a regular basis. As we've already learned, the optimal times to do so are the morning and afternoon. At these times the Yin energy is fading and the Yang energy is ascending. Of these two times the early morning is most suitable for practicing beginner-level Conscious Sleep. With time and dedication you'll soon be able to fall asleep at bedtime while retaining full awareness of the transition. When that time comes, try this:

Fire Breathing Technique: The Yang Breath

Before you retire to bed for the evening arrange your sleeping space so that it's free of distractions such as loud noises, bright lights, or activity of any kind. Next, you'll need a Memory Foam wedge or recliner of some kind that you can fall asleep on while reclining on your back at roughly a 45° angle. Lay down and relax for a few minutes and enter a light Trance state (ALPHA). Next, place the palms of your hands over your navel with your dominant hand on top of your non-dominant hand. Gently begin Fire Breathing by inhaling quickly through your nose and exhaling somewhat forcefully out of your mouth. Do this thirty times, gradually increasing the speed of hyperventilation as you go. Once you reach thirty breaths, exhale fully and hold the breath out for as long as you can. Then inhale fully and hold the breath for a slow count of fifteen and begin the process all over again. Repeat this four times. You'll notice, after the second round, that you're able to exhale and hold the breath out for longer and longer periods of time. I've gone up to three minutes without the need for air! The reason for this is that you've flooded your body with oxygen during the hyperventilation phase, therefore your need to inhale is reduced. Every cell in your body holds on to the oxygen until the carbon dioxide builds up in your lungs as you hold your breath out. When you feel the need to inhale that's your body telling you that a sufficient quantity of carbon dioxide has built up. When you do so your cells, which have been holding on to the excess oxygen, relax and flood your body with oxygen rich blood. This is the breathing technique suggested by some physicians to prevent unconsciousness during a heart attack while one is alone. During a heart attack you have about ten seconds before you lose consciousness. This breathing technique could keep you conscious long enough to get to a phone or an emergency room. Imagine what it could do for you as you're falling asleep at night and attempting to do so consciously!

Once you've completed three rounds of fire breathing, relax and breathe naturally. Allow yourself to drift further and further into Trance (Conscious Sleep). You should notice an increase in hypnagogic imagery and a pleasant natural high (who needs drugs?). What you've essentially done is to balance the dominant Yin energy of night time with the Yang energy of the fire breathing. This process of adjusting the Yin/Yang balance of the body is known in Taoism as “Kan/Li” (water/fire). With it you effectively stimulate the adrenal glands of your body, which is a secret key of successful Conscious Sleep. Master it and you'll have gained a powerful antidote to the intoxicating venom of the sleep serpent.

(For more information on this and other related topics, come join in the discussion at The Veiler's


The subject of this interview hardly requires an introduction. The author of over a dozen books on a variety of topics ranging from psychedelics to the psychic powers of animals, women of visionary art, human evolution, and lucid dreaming, David Jay Brown is arguably the most versatile and prolific writer in the Human Potential Movement. Being the diehard fan that I am, I was thrilled when David agreed to sit down for a Q&A. Warmhearted as he is wise, David Jay Brown highlights for us some of the most tantalizing aspects of his work. Enjoy!

-Daniel Kelley

Daniel: You've authored numerous books on a variety on topics. What advice would you give aspiring authors seeking publication in the consciousness studies genre?

David: Pretty much the same advice that I’d give to all young writers. Write. Write. Write… Write about what you love most, and are most passionate about, not what you think other people want, or to try and make money. Query publications and publishers with your best ideas, and take every opportunity that comes your way. Expect lots of rejections and be committed to keep writing no matter what. Believe that nothing can stop you from becoming the brilliant writer that you were meant to be!

Daniel: When did you first realize that the exploration of the human spirit was your life's purpose?

David: As a young teenager I had a natural curiosity for altered states of consciousness and Jungian psychology. I was particularly curious about how the human mind worked, as well as in religious, occult, and mystical systems. I began meditating when I was 14 and this opened new perceptions in my awareness and woke up sleeping areas of my brain. When I experimented with cannabis and psychedelics latter on my mind was blown totally open, and this lead to a deep interest in the evolution of consciousness and the exploration of the human spirit.

Daniel: In your book, “Dreaming Wide Wake”, you link the phenomena of Lucid Dreaming and Psychedelics. Can you elaborate a little on this?

David: Yes, I was inspired to write ‘Dreaming Wide Awake’ largely because I saw that no one else had written about, what to me, was an obvious connection between psychedelic states of consciousness, lucid dreaming, and shamanic healing practices around the world. For example, many people report having spontaneous lucid dreams several nights after having a transformative experience with ayahuasca, LSD, or magic mushrooms, and when people “ingest” “psychedelic substances” within lucid dreams— i.e., “dream psychedelics”— they report experiencing genuine psychoactive effects. Additionally, many anthropologists report that they can’t easily differentiate between indigenous people’s reports of lucid dreams and other shamanic trance states. Also, isn’t it interesting that people use the term “waking up” to describe both the process of emerging from a dream, as well as the process of becoming more spiritually aware? There are dozens of other interesting connections between these two states that I explore in my book, and I basically conclude that a psychedelic experience brings dreaming awareness into waking consciousness, and lucid dreaming brings waking awareness into dreaming consciousness.

Daniel: What's your personal take on the topic of Astral Projection and Near Death Experience?

David: They’re mysterious experiences, and I don’t have any firm beliefs about their true nature. It’s very hard to say where in the time-space continuum lucid dreams and astral travels are actually occurring, and whether or not they involve journeys into an objective external reality, another dimension, or one’s own mind. There’s interesting evidence to support each of these seemingly-contradictory ideas. Similarly with near-death experiences, it’s very hard to say if these are genuine out of body experiences or simply the hallucinations of a traumatized brain, although there is some compelling evidence to suggest that people can have near-death experiences when there is very little activity in the brain.

Daniel: Have you ever had an Out of Body Experience? If so, what was it like and how has it influenced your work?

David: Yes, I’ve had a couple dozen out of body experiences that pretty much blew my mind. I used to have them quite frequently, when I used to float regularly in an isolation tank, and with states of sleep paralysis. The experiences began as states of sleep paralysis, where I couldn’t move my body, but realized that something, a ghostly astral limb of sorts, would move in response to my attempts to move my body. This eventually lead to amazing experiences where I floated out of my body, but then these experiences became more like lucid dreams (or even regular, non-lucid dreams) and I’m not really sure what the difference is.

Daniel: If you had to pick, which of your publications should a first-time David Jay Brown reader begin with?

David: I guess that depends what people are looking for or are most interested in. I’ve done six interview collections, two science fiction novels, two health science books, and series of book about exploring psychedelic states of consciousness and lucid dreaming. My book ‘The New Science of Psychedelics’ (which was really supposed to be titled ‘Over the Edge of the Mind’) is a summary of what I’ve learned from my psychedelic experiences, interviews with extraordinary people, and unconventional scientific research.

Daniel: Do you believe in an afterlife?

David “Believe” is too strong of a word to describe my thought process on this deeply mysterious topic. I suspect that there’s probably some sort of continuation of consciousness after the demise of the physical body, although I wouldn’t bet my life on it. Honestly, I’m pretty uncommitted to any firm belief about what happens after we die, and I entertain different ideas about this almost daily and I do think about it a lot. It seems that there are far more possibilities for an afterlife than the average person recognizes— Heaven, Hell, reincarnation, nothingness, or union with the divine. The bigger question really is, who are we? Are we just the information in our brains, and can we upload ourselves into a computer’s hard drive and live forever in virtual reality? Or do we have immortal “souls” that travel from body to body and evolve over time? As long as as we don’t get too freaked out by the concept of eventually saying goodbye to everything that we love in this world, the possibilities of what death holds in store are only limited by our imaginations.

Daniel: What's your opinion on the recent explosion of interest in entheogens like Ayahuasca and Salvia Divinorum?

David: Oh, its delightful and I couldn’t be more pleased. I’ve been waiting my whole life for this, it seems. I suspect that this exploding global interest in psychedelic consciousness that we’re currently witnessing is largely a response— from the plant world or DNA— to the environmental crises on our planet. That is, I suspect that the planetary web of life is desperately trying to transform the violent and parasitic primates that are destroying this biosphere (i.e., “us”) into sustainable, ecologically-aware, symbiotic creatures, through visionary plant-induced mystical experiences.

Daniel: Do you have a personal transformative practice? Do you meditate, for example?

David: Yes, as I mentioned earlier, I’ve been practicing transcendental meditation since I was 14, and I started practicing mindfulness mediation techniques a few years ago as well. Practicing techniques to help me to lucid dream more frequently are also helpful for personal transformation and self-growth, I’ve found.

Daniel: You've rubbed elbows with some household names in the Human Potential Movement. How did you meet these giants and what effect have they had on the development of your own philosophy?

David: Yes, I’ve been quite fortunate to be able to spend time exchanging ideas with some of the greatest minds of our time. In my early twenties I learned to write authors, artists, and cultural innovators whose work had inspired me, and was surprised by how many of them wrote me back. It was from these experiences that I realized that I had access to some incredible people, and as I started doing interviews, and building a reputation for doing good work, it got easier. My personal philosophy has been profoundly influenced by my interactions over the years with these brilliant thinkers, and it’s often hard to say where my own ideas begin and their ideas end.

Daniel: What can your readers expect from you in the future? Are you currently planning any workshops or book tours?

David: My wife and I have an awesome new book coming out soon, called Women of Visionary Art, which will be published by Inner Traditions. It’s a collection of interviews that we did with some of the most talented artists on the planet, and it showcases their incredible artwork. I’m currently working on another new book, about the future evolution of the human species, which is still in its early stages. I’ll be giving a lecture about lucid dreaming and psychedelics at a conference at the University of Southern California this Spring, I’m planning to give workshops this summer at the Starwood Festival in Ohio, and I a few other events in Northern California on the horizon. We’ve recently been invited to celebrate the publication of Women of Visionary Art next fall at the Chapel of Sacred Mirrors in New York, and are looking into that as a possible public event.

Daniel: Can you give us a hint about what your forthcoming book on human evolution is going include?

David: Sure. This will be an exploration of the possibilities that currently face us as a species on this wayward plant— are we perilously headed towards our extinction, or are we miraculously evolving into higher life forms? With the current ecological crisis looming on the horizon, and gleaming, sparkling technological advances in robotics, quantum computing, and artificial intelligence, it’s never seemed like a more precarious time— with the potential to becomes almost godlike in our capabilities or completely destroy ourselves. I’m looking forward to interviewing Brain Games host Jason Silva about this soon, and will be speaking with a group of extraordinary, world-class experts from various disciplines about this as I make progress with the book.

Daniel: What prompted you to study the psychic potential of animals?

David: Ah, this was my work with British biologist Rupert Sheldrake. In 1995 I met with Rupert Sheldrake in San Francisco and we discussed collaboration on a series of research projects, which became the backbone for his books ‘Dogs That Know When Their Owners Are Coming Home’ and ‘The Sense of Being Stared At’, as well as several scientific papers. I had been doing conventional neuroscience research prior to this work with Rupert, and had stopped, due to my empathy with the laboratory animals. Rupert opened me up to the possibility of doing ethical animal research, studying the fascinating human-pet bond, and I had been interested in psychic phenomenon— or phenomena that conventional science can’t easily explain— since childhood. Rupert and I worked together on various projects for five years.

Daniel: You've spoken on the effects of drugs on sexuality. What are your thoughts on the oftentimes detrimental effects on the sex drive of many long-term MDMA users?

David: Interesting question. Huh, I actually haven’t heard this. I’ve heard that long-tern MDMA users may have difficulty with anxiety and insomnia, but not problems with their sex drives. I would think any long-term reduction in sex drive might be related to dendritic damage to serotonergic neurons in the brain; i.e. damage to the connections between brain cells that produce the calming neurotransmitter (or brain chemical) known as “serotonin,” as there is some scientific evidence for this.

Daniel: What was your initiation into the world of Lucid Dreaming?

David: When I was 16 years old, I spontaneously had my first lucid dream after an LSD experience. Several years later I met lucid dream researcher Stephen LaBerge and learned that this was a skill that could be improved by practicing certain techniques. Over the years I practiced and refined this skill.

Daniel:  Are you familiar with the Integral philosophy? What are your thoughts on it?

David: I think that Ken Wilber’s theories are quite brilliant, although I haven’t studied his work as much as I know I should. One of these days I’ll get around to it.

This has been fun; thanks for all of the great questions Daniel!

Daniel: It's been my pleasure! And thank you for being so accessible. I look forward to your forthcoming books!

For those interested in David's work, I recommend beginning with his marvelous book "Dreaming Wide Awake". Here's the link:


My Recent Experiment with a Pendulum

(Psionic Devices Revisited)

By Daniel A. Kelley

So I've been experimenting with a Pendulum recently. I've used them before, but typically only as a type of lie-detector test while giving Tarot readings for "silent" querents who prefer to keep their feelings on the subject matter hidden. You see, I discovered many years ago that these so-called "psionic"tools usually answer in ways that merely tells us what we already know. But such is the inner poverty of modern humanity that many people are suprised by the answers!

I was using a Ouija board with my brother many years ago and didn't expect anything to happen, but it did. However, I soon discovered that even though I wasn't moving the planchette, it still spelled out the answers I was thinking about.

So much for communication with the "other side"!

I was then introduced to Pendulums by a hypnotist back in 1997. She had me hold one over a square piece of paper upon which was inscribed the a compass. She asked me to move my eyes sharply from North to South and, wouldn't you know it, the Pendulum moved in the same direction! I repeated the experiment at home, but this time without moving my eyes. Instead, I merely thought of the direction and the Pendulum responded.

That's how I determine how someone truly feels about the topic of their Tarot reading!

I thought I'd squeezed all the juice pit of that lemon, but apparently not. Flash forward to today and I've discovered something astounding about Pendulums that made me rethink the whole thing over. But first, a little background information on me:

I usually never talk about this with anyone outside the close-knit circle of friends that were present when this occurred, but I simply can't share this breakthrough without discussing it a little. After a prolonged and rigorous spiritual discipline I came into contact with what has been called by many names by many cultures throughout the ages:

• Spirit Guide

• Holy Guardian Angel

• Reflex Man

• Daemon

• Higher Self

This occurred in the year 1999 in a third-story apartment in Chicopee Massachusetts. I won't go into the details of this life changing event, but the name revealed to me was "Aima".

Last year, I decided to write a series of How-to books on the topic of Lucid Dreaming. After I completed the first book, Aima began to reappear in my dreams. I could also feel her presence. I began to feel waves of bliss and love followed by prolonged periods of spiritual dryness. This is very unlike me.

Finally, I felt spontaneously inspired to enter a trance state and test my Pendulum as an indirect mode of communicating with Aima. I began by looking up fan-shaped charts on the internet with multiple answers written in columns on the fan. I tested it by only looking at the title of the chart, i.e., Money, Personality, Family, Spirituality, and so forth, but not the myriad answers. I was shocked to find that even though I hadn't looked at the answers that they were all correct! After I did this to my satisfaction, I moved on to more unknown answers to pressing questions. The answers both frightened and fascinated me.

I then took this a step further and made the Pendulum more portable. In the instance of not having charts handy, I asked Aima to show me her motions for Yes and No and Good and Bad. The Pendulum then went through a series of four different motions.

I'm going to continue my experience and try for 80% accuracy. I'll keep you all posted!

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